History YMMV / Persona5TToZ

** Eiko from Makoto's Confidant. While it's revealed that her boyfriend Tsukasa is a scammer who ropes in girls to sell their bodies to pay nonexistent debts, Eiko does little to earn the player's sympathy because of her refusal to acknowledge the situation. Eiko adamantly refuses to believe Makoto when she tries to warn Eiko that Tsukasa is clearly bad news; other hosts in the Red Light District hate Tsukasa's guts for giving them a bad name. Even after learning that Tsukasa has been texting multiple other girls behind her back, Eiko jumps to the conclusion that Makoto is a "bitch" who's trying to steal her boyfriend away. And after Tsukasa [[DirtyCoward backs down the moment that Joker and Makoto stand up to him]], the only explanation Eiko offers for her behavior is that Tsukasa was the only person who paid attention to her, tacitly admitting that she knew his charm was all an act. For fans, [[FanDislikedExplanation this excuse didn't cut it]]; many other characters in the game are shown to be handling much worse circumstances than Eiko's with much better attitudes, including Makoto herself. And while Eiko was clearly in a bad spot, the fact that she not only stayed with Tsukasa after figuring out what he was planning but tried to drag innocent people down with her means that [[{{Wangst}} she comes across as a petulant child who's upset that she can't get everything she wants]]. When Makoto slaps Eiko for refusing to accept any responsibility for such selfish behavior to the bitter end, it doesn't feel like a MomentOfWeakness on Makoto's part; it feels like well-deserved karma for Eiko.

** It is alluded in some games in the entire Megami Tensei series like Shin Megami Tensei If... and the first Devil Summoner game that the Persona series and the previous games mentioned are set in the same universe but in an alternative timeline where the events of the first Shin Megami Tensei game were prevented [[spoiler:(or specifically the latter half of the game was prevented that has Tokyo nuked and demons invading the rest of the world; evidenced by a classmate in SMT If... mentioned seeing a boy wearing a COMP and his dog ((the protagonist of Shin Megami Tensei and Pascal/Cerbeus before fused with a demon)) and in the first Devil Summoner game mentioned that Gotou and Thorman who drove the conflict of SMT 1 they were put out of commission)]]. It would had been an great tribute to the first SMT game as Tokyo was also the main setting if any character from the game like the protagonist, Law and Chaos Heroes and the Heroine shown up as grown ups leading different but peaceful lives and establishing the possible continuity between said games further.

** Samael's Palace has mouse puzzles, which are lengthy and have tons of backtracking, narrow hallways that make it difficult to avoid enemies, and five minibosses that have to be completed in order to clear the way to the treasure. And it springs a BossRush on you towards the end; after facing a difficult mini-boss, you have to fight [[spoiler:two powerful Shadows with Desperation, Akechi with Robin Hood, and then Akechi as Black Mask using Loki]], all without saving or healing. Royal does reduce the amount of mouse puzzles at the least.

* TakeThatScrappy: While more of a BaseBreakingCharacter than a full-on scrappy, Mishima gets a lot of these moments. With the exceptions of Kasumi and Akechi (who both never get any significant interaction with him), as well as Makoto and Haru (both of whom had very little interactions with him), the Phantom Thieves treat Mishima as TheFriendNobodyLikes, and his Confidant is one of the few that will always rank up regardless of how you treat him, and the game gives you several dialogue choices to express irritation towards him. Mishima even gets brought in during Rank 5 of Futaba's Confidant, and she mocks him via AccidentalMisnaming and BrutalHonesty.

* TakeThatScrappy: While more of a BaseBreakingCharacter than a full-on scrappy, Mishima gets a lot of these moments. With the exceptions of Kasumi and Akechi (who both never get any significant interaction with him), as well as Makoto and Haru (both of whom had very little interactions with him,) the Phantom Thieves treat Mishima as TheFriendNobodyLikes, and his Confidant is one of the few that will always rank up regardless of how you treat him, and the game gives you several dialogue choices to express irritation towards him. Mishima even gets brought in during Rank 5 of Futaba's Confidant, and she mocks him via AccidentalMisnaming and BrutalHonesty.

* TakeThatScrappy: While more of a BaseBreakingCharacter than a full-on scrappy, Mishima gets a lot of these moments. With the exceptions of Kasumi and Akechi (who both never get any significant interaction with him), the Phantom Thieves treat Mishima as TheFriendNobodyLikes, and his Confidant is one of the few that will always rank up regardless of how you treat him, and the game gives you several dialogue choices to express irritation towards him. Mishima even gets brought in during Rank 5 of Futaba's Confidant, and she mocks him via AccidentalMisnaming and BrutalHonesty.

* TaintedByThePreview: For most of the game's marketing phase, Kasumi wasn't that well-received of a character for various reasons. One is that her design and personality felt like a cheap knock-off of Joker and the Female Protagonist from ''VideoGame/Persona3'' ''[[UpdatedRerelease Portable]]'' respectively. Another is that she's outright portrayed as too perfect in the game's trailers, far beyond the game's worldview of a CrapsackWorld. Furthermore, an added scene during the game's tutorial (escaping the casino palace) features her hogging most of Joker's spotlight during that scene which was supposed to be the focus. Upon Royal's release, however, [[spoiler:Kasumi, or in reality, Sumire quickly gained popularity because of her unique tragic past (as compared to other Phantom Thieves) and her {{Adorkable}} antics, making her a much more pleasant character to interact with than Marie for many. Furthermore, the aforementioned Casino scene didn't actually hog Joker's involvement a lot with context considered. The biggest complaint against her is that she does not have that much screentime in spite of how much emphasis the game's marketing had on her character, which is ironic considering the initial fears that she would be a SpotlightStealingSquad like Marie was.]]

** It is alluded in some games in the entire Megami Tensei series like Shin Megami Tensei If... and the first Devil Summoner game that the Persona series and the previous games mentioned are set in the same universe but in an alternative timeline where the events of the first Shin Megami Tensei game were prevented [[spoiler:(or specifically the latter half of the game was prevented that has Tokyo nuked and demons invading the rest of the world; evidenced by a classmate in SMT If... mentioned seeing a boy wearing a COMP and his dog ((the protagonist of Shin Megami Tensei and Pascal/Cerbeus before fused with a demon)) and in the first Devil Summoner game mentioned that Gotou and Thorman who drove the conflict of SMT 1 they were put out of commission]]). It would had been an great tribute to the first SMT game as Tokyo was also the main setting if any character from the game like the protagonist, Law and Chaos Heroes and the Heroine shown up as grown ups leading different but peaceful lives and establishing the possible continuity between said games further.

** It is alluded in some games in the entire Megami Tensei series like Shin Megami Tensei If... and the first Devil Summoner game that the Persona series and the previous games mentioned is set in the same universe but in an alternative timeline where the events of the first Shin Megami Tensei game [[spoiler:(or specifically the latter half of the game where Tokyo was nuked and demons invading the rest of the world, evidenced by a classmate in SMT If... mentioned seeing a boy wearing a COMP and his dog ((the protagonist of Shin Megami Tensei and Pascal/Cerbeus before fused with a demon)) indicates that the events before Tokyo was nuked did happened)]] were prevented. It would had been an great tribute to the first SMT game as Tokyo was also the main setting if any character from the game like the protagonist, Law and Chaos Heroes and the Heroine shown up as grown ups leading different but peaceful lives.

** Upon her introduction, it is clear that Makoto is not very well-liked among her classmates. In fact, it's implied that she didn't have any friends before joining the Phantom Thieves, with a ''Dancing in Starlight'' EasterEgg indicating that she's not considered especially attractive in-universe either. While she does have a [[VocalMinority vocal]] amount of [[HypeBacklash detractors]], Makoto is nonetheless one of the more popular characters within the Eastern and Western fandom alike, consistently ranking in the top five on several polls, and having many fans for being useful in battle, her TeamMom status, CharacterDevelopment, and a fan favorite love interest for Joker.

** Sae Niijima. She delivers an extremely harsh TheReasonYouSuckSpeech to Makoto over [[DisproportionateRetribution an offhand comment]] at dinner (that was InnocentlyInsensitive at worst), threatens Sojiro with [[DepartmentOfChildDisservices dubious abuse charges over Futaba]] to get him to testify about Wakaba Isshiki and cognitive psience, and is implied to have [[FrameUp forged evidence]] or [[MiscarriageOfJustice rigged trials]] because she believes [[AmbitionIsEvil winning is the only thing that matters]]. She's meant to come off as an AntiVillain who's SlowlySlippingIntoEvil, but the problem is she shows [[TheUnfettered little to no guilt, apprehension, or remorse]] for [[AmoralAttorney any of this]]. This could have been cleared up via her Shadow, ''a la'' Shadow Futaba, but Shadow Sae proves to be just as vehement in her pursuit of victory and ''[[AloofBigSister completely ignores]]'' Makoto, not even having a cognition of her. Much like Okumura, Sae comes off as a {{Jerkass}} at best who is EasilyForgiven because [[ProtagonistCenteredMorality Makoto is on her side]].

** [[CorruptCorporateExecutive Kunikazu Okumura]] is meant to be seen in a more sympathetic light than other targets and [[spoiler:his death is seen as a [[AlasPoorVillain tragic moment]]]]. This falls flat for many people since he's a BadBoss who horribly mistreats his employees to the point where he sees them as mindless robots that he works to death. His love for Haru is also an InformedAttribute since he never treats her with any kindness on-screen, is willing to marry her off to someone he knows is an abusive playboy for his own gain, and in ''Royal'' his cognition of her is mindlessly obedient and he eventually orders her to suicide bomb the thieves as a last resort. It's also implied and later confirmed that [[spoiler:he solicited Akechi to kill his competitors]]. As a result, he's usually seen as being as horrible as the other targets, some even seeing him to be as horrible as Kamoshida and Shido.

** [[CorruptCorporateExecutive Kunikazu Okumura]] is meant to be seen in a more sympathetic light than other targets and [[spoiler: his death is seen as a [[AlasPoorVillain tragic moment]]]]. This falls flat for many people since he’s a BadBoss who horribly mistreats his employees to the point where he sees them as mindless robots that he works to death. His love for Haru is also an InformedAttribute since he never treats her with any kindness on-screen, is willing to marry her off to someone he knows is an abusive playboy for his own gain, and in Royal his cognition of her is mindlessly obedient and he eventually orders her to suicide bomb the thieves as a last resort. It’s also implied and later confirmed that [[spoiler: he solicited Akechi to kill his competitors]]. As a result he’s usually seen as being as horrible as the other targets, some even seeing him to be as horrible as Kamoshida and Shido.

* ValuesDissonance: The age of consent in Japan, at the time of the game's production, was sixteen years old, which meant that legally speaking, there is nothing wrong with Joker ending up in a romantic relationship with Takemi, Ohya, Kawakami or Chihaya. That does nothing to stop most western audiences from being weirded out that they're options, especially when previous ''Persona'' games limited romance options to age-appropriate characters in the localization.

** Near the end of Hifumi's Confidant, it's revealed her mother has been rigging her Shogi matches so that Hifumi can become a popular idol. When Hifumi learns this, she decides to continue playing in spite of her terrible skill and now damaged reputation, both to continue improving, and for her father. This is a nice arc for her, but it comes so late into her Confidant that by then the story basically ends and Hifumi doesn't change really in any way as a result. Some players find that if this had happened sooner in her Confidant, the rest of it could be struggling with what to do, which would make her resolution to improve feel more earned. It also would make Joker's involvement more impactful, since Joker could point out that Hifumi's techniques were helpful, and in turn Joker could help Hifumi improve. As it stands, the arc feels very hastily closed up.

** The Thieves are meant to be portrayed as getting easier to manipulate by their newfound popularity when they target Okumura. While him being at the top of the Phan-Site's target poll is part of the reason they decided to target him, it's hard to view them as [[GlorySeeker Glory Seekers]] when Okumura was 1) abusing an entire corporation of employees very seriously, 2) suspected of involvement with the mental shutdown cases, and 3) going to force Haru to marry an older man if they didn't take his heart before the deadline.

* ThatOneBoss: Unsurprisingly, 5 has some rather brutal bosses:

** The Omnipotent Orb [[note]](a late-game NG+ item usually dropped by the most powerful {{bonus boss}})[[/note]] was ''severely'' nerfed in ''Royal''. In the original game, it would've blocked anything that wasn't almighty... here? It would block only ''magical'' attacks and the status aliments that come from them, so say goodbye to it blocking physical, gun attacks and the aliments that fall under almighty! Some players naturally took issue with this as well, as it makes all the time spent getting it feel pointless.

** The Hama and Mudo spells return and still have a chance of causing an instant kill. All it takes is a single enemy getting lucky for it to instantly kill a party member, or worse, Joker, and force a restart.
** Status ailment skills in general have been given a significant buff to their success rate compared to earlier games, and while this is a good thing for you (see GameBreaker), it's not so good when enemies use them. The two worst by far are Brain Jack and Abysmal Surge. The former inflicts Brainwash, which is essentially the Charm status from ''VideoGame/Persona3'' but somehow ''even worse'' as not only can Brainwashed characters heal enemies (including full heal spells), they can now also ''cast buffs on them''. Additionally, it opens them up to Technical damage from Psi skills (Which many bosses capitalize on). The latter inflicts Despair, which causes affected characters to be unable to move for 3 turns, losing SP each time, and then outright die. Items to cure it are rare, and Makoto's Energy Shower won't help if she also gets hit with Despair. Abysmal Surge hitting the whole party is essentially an automatic Game Over.

* ThatOneBoss:

** Samael can be a pretty huge roadblock as well. He has [[MarathonBoss FIVE different phases]], the first four of which serve to soften you up for his brutal final phase. To wit: he gets an extra turn for throwing party-wide damage from ''every'' element in the game at you, fishing for weaknesses in addition to doing everything the fourth phase does (a physical Fear-inducing attack and several (de)buffs); if he gets a knockdown, he'll follow it up with either a OneHitKill attack, ''another'' Fear inducer, or Heat Riser to buff all his stats, all of which are really bad because he already hits like a truck on steroids. Your saving grace in the fight is that his rotation for the party-wide skills is predetermined, so having mass party-swap (max Star Confidant) or magic walls at the right times can lessen the sting, but if you lack both, Samael ''will'' score several knockdowns and you'll be in for a world of pain. He gains a few new attacks in ''Royal'' that boost his offensive capabilities, and forces Joker into a [[DuelBoss one-on-one battle]] in the last quarter of his final form.

** Many have found Morgana's tantrum and leaving the team during the Okumura arc to be [[ItsAllAboutMe selfish whining]]. While Ryuji pushed it too far by calling Morgana "useless," when the time to apologize comes, Ryuji gets the lion's share of the blame. The party apparently isn't [[WithFriendsLikeThese bothered by the fact]] that Morgana has been [[JerkassToOne treating Ryuji like garbage]] from the beginning of the game for no reason. It doesn't help that this takes place during what many consider to be the weakest story arc in the game, and you cannot do anything at night (including activities that you can do in your room, like making infiltration tools or watching a DVD) until Morgana rejoins, wasting several days of precious free time.

** Morgana, when he briefly leaves the Phantom Thieves. Many feel that Morgana's feelings of inadequacy were built up thanks to Futaba being a better navigator than him, Ryuji's InnocentlyInsensitive comments, and Morgana being unsure of if he's human or not. However, Morgana's outbursts cross into {{Wangst}} for many players. Morgana is a vital member of the party due to his knowledge of the Metaverse and his ability to help the group explore Mementos; never once does it seem like he's useless. Additionally, Morgana treats Ryuji like crap for the entire game for not knowing things about the Metaverse, despite Ryuji being justified in his confusion. However, when Ryuji and Morgana get into an argument, Morgana throws a temper tantrum and quits the Phantom Thieves, apparently unable to take what he dishes out. Making things worse is that both Joker and Futaba expressed concern over Morgana's feelings, yet he rejected both of their attempts to talk to him about it. And even more damning, Morgana rushes into Okumura's Palace, while leading a civilian into danger on top of it all. (Haru awakened to her Persona while there, but only partially, and Morgana had no way of knowing that was going to happen.) Combine all of this, and many players didn't feel any sympathy for Morgana's behavior during the Okumura arc.

* UnintentionalUncannyValley:
** There's something off about Morgana's face in his cat form in the real world. He has large, piercing blue eyes and the way his mouth moves when he speaks looks very unnatural.
** The Sphinx sports [[spoiler:the head of Wakaba]], in a way that makes it look ''very'' off, and utterly terrifying.

* UnpopularPopularCharacter: With the Phantom Thieves receiving AllOfTheOtherReindeer treatment, a few of these are bound to happen. However, these people deserve special mention-

** Ryuji Sakamoto is ostracized by his former track teammates because he was indirectly responsible for getting the team shut down-even though he was trying to call out Kamoshida's abusive behavior, and while he's definitely not disliked by the other Thieves, he’s definitely the ButtMonkey of the group and they, [[JerkassToOne especially Morgana]], tend to make comments at his expense. In spite of being consistently ranked at the bottom on the Eastern popularity polls, [[GermansLoveDavidHasselhoff the Western fanbase]] ''adores'' Ryuji due to his endearing, friendly personality and [[HeterosexualLifePartners bromance with the protagonist]], and many of his fans are not fond of [[spoiler:the scene where he gets [[DoubleStandardAbuseFemaleOnMale beaten up offscreen by the female Thieves while the males do nothing to stop them]] after they escape Shido's Palace]].

** Another one that no one saw coming was Slime Mara, an alternate form of Mara from ''VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiIIINocturne'' that was little more than a hidden one shot gag.
** Kasumi's Character Introduction trailer for ''[[UpdatedRerelease Royal]]'' has her, Morgana and Joker fighting against Biyarky, whose only and last appearance in the ''[=MegaTen=]'' franchise was as one of Nyarlathotep's minions in ''[[VideoGame/Persona2 Persona 2: Eternal Punishment]]'', released over a decade ago. This was then followed by Hastur a few trailers later, who was also one of Nyarlathotep's minions in ''Persona 2: Eternal Punishment''.
*** Because of their appearance, [[spoiler:this led fans to assume that Nyarlathotep was was going to come back as the GreaterScopeVillain. But nope, we instead get his dad Azathoth, who previously only appeared in ''Giten Megami Tensei: Tokyo Mokushiroku''. ''And he's Takuto Maruki's Persona, no less!'' What's more, Maruki later evolves it into Adam Kadmon, who previously only appeared as ''a regular enemy'' in [[TheVeryDefinitelyFinalDungeon Paradise]] back in ''Shin Megami Tensei NINE''!]]
** Likewise, pretty much no-one predicted that Kasumi's Persona would be [[Literature/{{Cinderella}} Cendrillon]], especially since Cendrillon herself is not a thief, although the story of Cinderella is about rising above oppression and injustice which fits in line with the story themes of ''Persona 5''.

** Ryuji Sakamoto is ostracized by his former track teammates because he was indirectly responsible for getting the team shut down-even though he was trying to call out Kamoshida's abusive behavior, and while he's definitely not disliked by the other Thieves, he’s definitely the ButtMonkey of the group and they, [[JerkassToOne especially Morgana]], tend to make comments at his expense. In spite of being consistently ranked at the bottom on the Eastern popularity polls, [[GermansLoveDavidHasselhoff the Western fanbase]] ''adores'' Ryuji due to his endearing, friendly personality and [[HeterosexualLifePartners bromance with the protagonist]], and many of his fans are not fond of [[spoiler:the scene where he gets [[DoubleStandardAbuseFemaleOnMale beaten up offscreen by the female Thieves while the males do nothing to stop them]] after they escape the last palace]].

** Upon her introduction, it is clear that Makoto is not very well-liked among her classmates. In fact, it's implied that she didn't have any friends before joining the Phantom Thieves. While she does have a [[VocalMinority vocal]] amount of [[HypeBacklash detractors]], Makoto is nonetheless one of the more popular characters within the Eastern and Western fandom alike, consistently ranking in the top five on several polls, and having many fans for being useful in battle, her [[TeamMom team mom]] status, CharacterDevelopment, and a fan favorite love interest for Joker.

** Black Mask has gotten this treatment from players, mostly in the West, who believe their AlasPoorVillain moment was heavy-handed and poorly executed, as the Phantom Thieves asked them to rejoin even after [[MoralEventHorizon multiple people died from their own selfish whims]], including [[spoiler:Futaba's mother, Haru's father, and even attempting to betray and kill Joker, in addition to causing mental shutdowns that ruined a lot of Tokyo and hurt a lot of innocent people]] undermines how the Phantom Thieves treated most of their targets, where they force the targets into a life of atonement, while making it clear that no matter how much they atone, they can never be forgiven for their crimes. Even though they aren't actually making an exception for this person either, they just knew that they're being [[spoiler:used by TheHeavy to kill off anyone whom he perceive as his enemies for his very own dystopian plan]], thus making a difference between [[spoiler:"Hitman" and "Killer"]]. In fact, the [[spoiler:aforementioned heavy takes most of the blame for Akechi's acts]]. However, many players were still not convinced by the game's attempts to shove most of the blame [[spoiler:to the heavy, pointing out that even though the heavy is the one who gave the orders, Akechi's murder of Okumura and cognitive Joker show that he is actually ''take pleasure'' in his killings, not to mention the fact that ''he'' was the one who approached the heavy offering his services as a hitman]]. All in all, Black Mask's detractors at best argue that they deserve at least some culpability.

** [[spoiler:Ryuji 'dying' during the escape from Shido's Palace]] could have been an interesting idea for the finale, with it being the trope of a character perma-death in a cutscene. [[spoiler:The way it was handled felt too dumb and slapstick-y, and he could always come back in the post game, so everyone would be happy. Even the prospect of the characters simple being happy with him being alive was done away with for meanspirited slapstick and many felt was a wasted opportunity]].