Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Twiddler on Jan 17th 2024 at 5:42:49 AM
The Digital
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to William Afton for "Always Coming Back".
A coupla mammals makin' gravy
- Zero Visibility: "God" is a cosmic horror who drains the life from entire planets and their populations to satisfy itself. When the only survivors of the last race it scoured seal it away within a Place Beyond Time, "God" reaches out to hundreds of innocent humans and lures them to its seal in an effort to suck the life from them and regain its strength. Although eldritch to the point of having no intelligence dialogue, "God" is evincibly cruel and deliberate in its actions. Old murals depicting it sparing some of the aliens it devoured simply so they could serve it as broken slaves, and it plays on the grief of the Sole Survivor of the latest traveling party it manipulates to their doom to have her kill its alien jailer, resulting in it devouring her and breaking free to resume its cosmic rampage, starting with Earth.
Just a starting content creator
Ah, Braz beat me to the joke. Anyway, yes to another Afton.
Check out my YouTube channel! I make audiobooks and whatever else I feel like!
The Emperor of Evil!
to William.
- Cerebex: Cerebex, once a European dictator named Schmackenberg, is a megalomaniac hellbent on world conquest. Faking his suicide under a bunker, he performs experiments on his daughter in hopes of storing his brain onto her body to preserve his life. Once this fails, he has his scientist Walter Jackson construct a machine for his plans, only to have his brain stored in said machine of which he promptly kills Walter. Using his new mechanical body to go on a rampage across the country with his army of robots, laying waste the country as his army sends cities to ruins and slaughtering the army in his way. He sends his robots to assassinate world leaders that would pose as an obstacle for his conquest.
- Captain Flash:
- The Mirror Man is an interdimensional being that feeds on the silicon of his victims, seeking to devour all of the Earth's most brilliant minds. Having the power to travel through mirrors, the Mirror Man makes his debut murdering a scientist who's experiments brought him to Earth and proceeds to do the same to another. He then tries to kill the father of Ricky Davis, Captain Flash's sidekick, until he was foiled by the heroes. Returning to devour all of the scientists in a conference, he kidnaps Dr. Mitchell and kills him before doing the same to another victim. The Mirror Man infiltrates the conference to slaughter everyone there and feast on their silicon until they're nothing but a dried husk. All while taking sadistic pleasure in taunting his arch-foe every failed attempts in stopping him.
- "The Iron Mask": The Iron Mask is a madman who seeks to steal the radioactive Cobalt so he could make a profit off of it. He uses Criminal Mind Games based on the story of Odysseus to lure his foe, Captain Flash, and face his robotic replicas of Greek monsters. All while threatening to use a hydrogen bomb filled with radiation to blow up all of Atom City as distraction.
- "The Fight of the Century": Muscle Man, also known as Muscles, is a muscle-for-hire working for the Mob who is given Super-Strength by a mob boss. Aiding criminals in several heists and robberies, Muscle sabotages a train using a boulder to rob it of its wealth. Not showing concerns over the fact that hundreds of innocent people would perish upon crashing onto another train, Muscle Man accepts Captain Flash's challenge in combat hoping to tear him limb from limb.
- "The Invaders": Mirago is the king of Imago seeking to conquer the Earth after his own planet is dying. Only caring about ruling the planet than simply saving his people from destruction, Mirago plans to infiltrate human society by having his minions disguise as world leaders to sow hatred and discord among the people of Earth. Once this succeeds, he would have the humans destroy each other prompting him to swoop in and takeover the planet.
William Afton. Why didn't you just put "Afton" in Redeeming qualities?
Barb / Temporary Kylo
This version of Will is a bit more complex then the usual ones brought here. So I felt it warranted the thorough rundown on some parts. Plus, his supposedly humanizing traits that are brutally subverted is a big part of why he is despicable as he is, so felt it was worth going over.
Nay on Chuck.
The First man
....Phenomenal
for another fanfic Afton. He may not be our friend Palpatine, but he'll get there.
Lord of Space
Could I get a few more votes for Zebul? 'Cause so far all he got is 1 upvote, 1 downvote and many abstains.
Oh and to Afton obviously.
Edited by CapitanoNox on May 14th 2024 at 9:30:36 PM
Not the Eye
Afton once more
Just a starting content creator
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Officially abstaining is still voting.
Edited by AmateurStorytime on May 14th 2024 at 12:31:48 PM
Check out my YouTube channel! I make audiobooks and whatever else I feel like!
Lord of Space
Yeah but I don't know how it works with abstains since I never got so many in a proposal before. Do they have weight or are they essentially a "I'm not voting"?
Edited by CapitanoNox on May 14th 2024 at 9:32:17 PM
Jogo
William Afton
Just a starting content creator
It's an official vote to say you aren't choosing yes or no. As far as polling goes, it doesn't help or harm you, but it still counts towards overall votes. With one yes and one no, you're at a net 0.
Edited by AmateurStorytime on May 14th 2024 at 12:45:47 PM
Check out my YouTube channel! I make audiobooks and whatever else I feel like!
Lord of Space
So basically, abstains are worth nothing.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Pretty much, yeah.
Just a starting content creator
I think they're worth situations exactly like this one, where you're asking for more votes. Plenty have voted on your candidate, but a majority of them happen to be abstentions, so it isn't like we're just ignoring them.
Lord of Space
Yeah but like, what happens if the situation doesn't change in the next days? Is my candidate considered rejected or not?
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
I don't know if there's an official rule. My own thoughts: Considered rejected for now, but able to be re-proposed later I guess?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Lord of Space
Wouldn't it make more sense for situations like this to extend the voting period if an actual consensus isn't reached by the end?
Just a starting content creator
Anything less than a net positive of five is a rejection.
Edited by AmateurStorytime on May 14th 2024 at 3:11:25 AM
Check out my YouTube channel! I make audiobooks and whatever else I feel like!
Lord of Space
Oh yeah... that rule. Almost forgot about it.
Edited by CapitanoNox on May 14th 2024 at 12:26:45 PM
A Girl, Just One of Many Kinds
Alrighty, well let’s do this
What’s The Work?
Bullet Train is a black comedy action film directed by David Leitch. It centers on several assassins inside a train bounded through Japan, all fighting each other for a briefcase as it’s shown their missions are actually interconnected with one another
But today, we”re gonna be focusing on the original source material, the original 2010 novel Maria Beetle, created by Kōtarō Isaka. While pretty much faithful to the original source material, the film and nook have some major differences, particularly the plot twist, character changes and the ending. So let’s speak about one of them.
Who is The Prince? What Does He Do?
Real name Satoshi Oji, The Prince is a 14 year old boy with feminine features, polite disposition and secretly a nihilistic, manipulative sociopath who serves as the Big Bad for the story. When Satoshi was a little boy, he rode his bike and crossed the street on a red light, resulting in a distracted passerby to follow ahead (believing the light turned green). This caused the man to be hit by a car and killed, and Satoshi realized two things:
- He was able to get away with it, with no one pinning anything on him.
- He felt zero remorse for his actions.
Thus beginning Satoshi’s nihilistic viewpoint as he began manipulating classmates and teachers in his school alike, and began his question for the world: “Why is it wrong to kill?”
The Prince became a completely feared individual, having kids be manipulated into committing violence for him and any teachers who try and look into him? They are framed for sexually assaulted students (with Prince forcing his minions and the other class to lie) or have “accidents” that make them quit, resulting in 5 people losing their jobs, including a kid’s father which ends up leading the kid to suicide. It’s revealed later by Satoshi that he killed 9 other people, indirectly, through his actions. And Prince is so feared by his peers that when one of them mess up, they proceed to electrocute each other as punishment just so The Prince doesn’t do worst to them.
When Yuichi Kimura learns about The Prince’s actions, and finds out The Prince attempted to electrocute his own son using a homemade taser, Kimura grew angered and followed a kid into the woods, and saw Satoshi attempting to use a defibrillator to electrocute one of his peer’s dogs to death, simply to break his spirits. Kimura promptly rescues the dog and makes Satoshi receive the beating of a life time, managing to make Prince scared for the first time of his life.
Nursing a petty vendetta against Kimura as well as crime lord Yoshio Minegishi for reprimanding him over the phone, Satoshi schemed his way to get them both killed the worst way possible. First, Satoshi lured Kimura’s young son, Wataru, on a rooftop and sent him off the edge, resulting in him being comatose. When Kimura, vengeful over his son’s “accident” hired an old associate to find info on Oji, The Prince turns around and strikes a deal with the associate, kettong him feel up a schoolgirl in order to get Information of Kimura.
Meeting Kimura on the train on bound through the country, The Prince tases and ties him up, and forces Kimura to go along with his plan, informing him that if he tries anything, he’ll have his associate Murder his son is his hospital room. He then shares his plan, going to Minegishi’s home and then getting Kimura to kill him, with The Prince even planning in using the innocent daughter of Minegishi to get his way. When The Twins and Nanao/Ladybug come onto the train and they begin fighting over The Briefcase, The Prince uses this to have some fun, playing up his Innocent schoolboy persona to keep himself under suspicion as he messes with the briefcase.
When caught by Lemon, Satoshi manages to get Kimura shot (though it’s revealed he survived) and when Lemon passes out to drugged water, Satoshi shoots him dead. When Tangerine later finds his corpse and realizes what he did, The Prince tricks Ladybug into thinking Tangerine was attacking him and results in Tangerine getting his Neck Snap. Everything seemed to have worked for The Prince, however, Kimura’s seemingly kind hearted parents and Wataru’s grandparents board the train.
The group have the equivalent of a Mexican Standoff, alongside a teacher named Satoshi (a character from another book created by Isaka named 3 Assassins), where they proceed to deconstruct and rip apart The Prince’s question of the morality of killing and The Prince hopes that soon enough his associate will kill Wataru and Ladybug will be killed when he uses a sabotaged gun that would blow up in his face.
Fortunately, a lucky poisonous snake comes in and attacks Ladybug, resulting in him fleeing for the bathroom, leaving Satoshi with the elder Kimura’s, who were retired Yakuza members. Much to Satoshi’s horror, he finds out that Wataru is okay and that his associate was murdered by friends of Kimura’s, and that his plan has fell apart. The Prince begins to panic as Mr. Kimura “The Elder” begins to rip him a new one over his arrogance and his childishness, thinking he has lived a thousands lives, and the grandparents revealed their intentions on making Satoshi’s last days on earth a living Hell for what they did to their son and grandson, and this is the last we see of The Prince, but an epilogue reveals a washed up body of an unidentified boy, so whatever happened to The Prince it probably wasn’t pretty.
Mitigating Factors?
If he did I wouldn’t propose him lol. Satoshi is everything that perfectly describes a Hate Sink: He’s a supremely, smug and manipulative child who uses others like pawns and explicitly shows zero remorse or kindness, even if he can fake it. The Prince’s attempts at philosophy and his Straw Nihilist rhetoric is all pulled back by the end to show a complete Dirty Coward who simply believes himself as superior to all others and thinks he can take on hardened criminals with a stupid grin on his face. While he does mention his grandmother and even thinks back to her with some “nostalgia” he himself admits he doesn’t care for his grandmother and just saw her as another clueless person he can manipulate.
Heinous Standard?
The Greater-Scope Villain, Yoshio Minegishi, is described a a brutal and feared crime lord, but all his actions are pretty much Offscreen Villainy and he doesn’t appear physically till the ending where he dies, so there”s nothing there. And all the other characters are Affably Evil or otherwise standard.
The Prince? Blows them ALL OUT. From manipulating and dominating his school, ruining the lives of multiple teachers, having the kids electrocute themselves, causing the deaths of 10 people, trying to kill a dog to break his classmate, putting an innocent kid in a coma, having a school girl sexually assaulted, planning to use another to his advantage and killing both Lemon and Tangerine. Overall, The Prince is a vile SOB who really shows himself as the worst and most evil villain in the book, even with the adults who are also hitman and assassins.
Verdict?
to The Prince!
Just a starting content creator
Yes to Prince-Not-So-Charming Satoshi.
Check out my YouTube channel! I make audiobooks and whatever else I feel like!
Guess I'll give![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]")
to the hundredth William Afton
@ACW I have a couple of very surprising candidates scheduled for this week—one is DMC-related—I'll have everything written up together.